Q: What were your earliest recollections...when you first began to think about life? A: I suppose that would be about 3 or 4 years old.   I remember walking on the driveway and all of a sudden...a feeling of what I would call "possibility" swept over me. Q.  How did that feel? A:  Sort of like the feeling that something important was going to happen and I was going to be there. Q.  Did something happen? A:  I suppose you could say it did...I grew up.   I like to phrase it like this, looking at it from the perspective of 50 years or so.   It is like the gradual clarification of a vague notion or idea...the clarification comes incrementally, bit by bit.   I have never forgotten the feeling and over the years considered is many times. Q.  What were your earliest musical experience that put you on the track of becoming a musician? A:  Oh, I remember that ...we had an RCA Victor phonograph...his masters voice with the dog logo.  I remember listening to the music which was early CW music by Jean Autry I think.  I started going to the piano and trying to play the music.   I think that was what led my mother to start my piano lessons. Q:  You didn't have music? A:  Oh no!  Just improvisitation on the piano in the same key as it was played on the record. Q:  So you remember things from the second and third years?  Can you say more? A:  Oh yes I suppose.  The detail is there.  Only the more important milestones are porbably significant. A lot of memories are probably best kept personal.  There is not room enough here to relate them.  I think about them sometimes.   It is like running a film, frame by frame....I can choose a frame and wander around in it.  The older you get the more you do that I think. Q:  Were you pretty much like the other boys...baseball, games etc? A:  Yes I suppose, except for about an hour of practice from 4 or 5 years on.  You have to realize that I lived in the "country".  Town was 6 miles away at that time so I pretty much entertained myself. Q:  So you had selfe esteem quite early in life? A:  This business of self esteem was not an issue during that period.  There was not a proactive preoccupation with it.  You did something well and you recieved recognition.  You felt good about it.   The test was always "what have you accomplished" not what have you been told. Q:  Self esteem was not an issue then. A:  Not only was it not an issue it was a non-issue! The current fixation on   providing self esteem to people, especially kids was not on the table for a very good reason. Q:  People were not enlightened? A:  No!  They were enlightened!  They knew that if you accomplished something and did it well, self esteem followed.  An organ builder once told be that praise  cannot be bought, advertised for, or lectured to you, it comes automatically  when you do something so well that praise is inevitable.  Self esteem is just part of that.   No big deal. Q:  You don't favor trying to teach self-esteem? A:  Sure, go ahead and try.   Knock yourself out!  What you will find is that if you persist in an outcome based education experience with no good, bad, better, best, worst distinctions, you will never have a basis for a child to judge against.   There are no standards in this type of education.  But when you get in the real world there are standards.   When faced with standards people loose a self esteem based on mediocrity and absense of standards.   You have to discriminate between mediocrity and excellence.

Q:  Did you do the normal things like have a gun etc. A: Oh sure!  I was never without it.  My friends and I trapped rabbits, shot squirrles and really thought we were living off the land...just like in the old west. Q:  How do you put that together with music? A:  The woods were where I could get away from adults...where they wouldn't go or could not go.   This was quiet, solitude and time to think and imagine. Q:  Do you think you would do the same today at that age? A:  Probably not.   With TV and all the activities that most kids do,  I would probably not do anything very well...just a smattering of everything.   Although I think my parents would intercept that.   They were German background and really emphasized quality. Q:  So you don't agree with the modern lifestyle of kids. A:  In short, no.  There is too much doing nothing time.   Amateur sports, classes of all kinds and time spent in doing things that will almost never translate into adult life...except the medirocity of it all. Q:  For example ? A:  Well, take sports.   A kid today is probably imvolved in socker, baseball, karate,   and all sorts of similar things that never have much of a payoff except a good time....sort of like TV. Q  But isn't that ok.  Isn't that doing things to round out the person. A:  Maby, but since almost everyone who has done that wishes they hadn't...?   For example take the typical person at 30 years old.   The old "I wish I could do something like play the piano" is a frequent comment.  Quite sad when you hear it spoken from the heart and you know they really wish the clock could be turned back. Q:  What are your thoughts on parental action in this area? A:   Well, parents are supposed to know that kids will take the course of least resistance, usually if you let them.  But real accomplishment takes work.  Then you get into the conversation about values. Q:  How do you mean that? A:  I suppose it comes down to the cultural values of the parents and their upbringing. How they were taught etc. Q: Do you have an ideal in mind...like a favorite culture? A:  I suppose I have a bias in favor of Western European and Japaneese culture. My experience tends to validate these two cultural approaches to child education and training. It is more or less expected that children will excell in some skill early in life rather than just play at everything. Q:  So you think this is the best approach? A:  There is always an exception to the rule.  But there is always a common   thread that tends to foster success.   This always comes from dedicated and educated parents who direct and plan and promote their children's education. Q:  So what would be your advise to parents and children who want to excell in music? A:  Start early; parents decide; provide a structure for success. Q:  Like what? A:  Look, let me give you an example.   The Japaneese head of the house says, "Yoshi, you are 4 years old and it is time to start piano." That's it...no conversation...Yoshi starts piano and practices.  6 years later the child plays well and has considerable self esteem...esteem from doing something well.  This is training for life.  There is always this question of talent.  If there is talent then it is worthwhile to pursue. But look, there are other things than music you know. Everyone doesn't have to develop it.  I think it is best if you do because you can't go back and do it later.

Q:  I would like to talk about when you, in looking back, think you first had what we call self esteem? A:  I think that came about naturally when I found myself playing for two churches and weddings and making money and people giving me praise and attention.  Remeber $200 per month for a 10 year old is not bad in 1950.   This translates to about $1000 per month in todays money. Q:  The praise and money didn't go to your head? A:  Heavens no!  My practice schedule was 3 hours a day, choir rehersal and two services on sunday plus school work and wedding etc.  I earned it. Q:  What is your view on money? A:  You need to make it and spend it.  Only if you spend what you yourself make will you ever get the real connection that money is distilled work.  If you do that you will make the right decisions about money. I've made money and I've lost money and made it back again.   I can't say I would take it back either.   However money is important, it represents freedom.  It allows creative freedom in your life. Q:  I see you love cars? A:  Sure, what guy doesen't. I prefer sports cars to the land yachts.   I had both. Over the years I have had chevy convert,  a '35 chev with a vette engine, a toyota truck, two nissans, and right now a Honda Prelude and a '01 Vette.  The prelude is great.   Its quick, agile and good mileage.   The Vetter is....well, what can I say!   Lets put it this way, it will get you in trouble real easy and has the potential, if you want to spend a few bucks on horsepower, to blow anything off the road.  I like it because it is America's only Sports Car.   I'm pro American. Q:  To change the subject, what do you think of the future of church organists given the technology of today's music instrument? A:  The future of traditional instruments like the piano and pipe organ will continue. Trends come and go.  Lets look at a few:   Catholics are in many cases going back to Latin.   Many evangical churches are installing large pipe or pipe/electronic organs.  The electronic piano has its place but even evangical churches have concert grand pianos.   What does that tell you?   In my opinion it says that people eventually see through shallowness in all things and opt for the real thing. Q:  So you think much of church music is shallow? A:  Not so much that. Contemporary music has its place and time.  Drums and cymbals and tambourines have their place but eventually quality and true greatness in music wins out. Q:  Like how does it? A:  It wins when a child is brought up in a church never hearing a concert pipe organ, or a concert grand piano or a great singer or choir.  This child goes to college and finally hears all that.  The first thing that happens is that they eventually go to their parents and with more than mild irritation in many cases ask, "Why didn't you ever let me hear that type of music?"  Usually the answer is "well, thats the kind of music our church has."  The response is usually something like, "I want you to know that had I heard music like Bach, Handel and Mozart, I might have been something in music.  I never had a chance mom, you didn't show me the best  dad.  I'll make sure my kids have the best." I sure would not want to be the parent on the recieving end of that exchange.. would you? Q:  I suppose not.  What can a parent do then? A:  Expose your child to the best in everything and tell them the truth.  Take them to music events.  There are concerts in abundance at churches, civic centers and universities.  When they ask why they don't do that kind of music at their church, tell them the truth.  But never attempt to compare the quality of a Bach or Handel oratorio. a glorious toccatta, in the hands of a trained

organist in a reverbrant building with a little ditty on a synthesizer and guitar.  It just can't be done.   If you try it it will come back to reflect on your parental credibility. Q:  Are weddings difficult? Are they  emotional and stressfull? A:  Usually no, except when they are.  You have to keep in mind that most people only do one wedding.   So they don't have much experience.  It is vitally important that someone, usually the organist to let them know that all will be well. The difficulty with weddings is to get everyone on the same page and agree about things.  The easy way to do that is to listen first then suggest. In my case, I try to paint a picture of the wedding as a process using music as the thread that connects. Q:  What is your philosophy about music for weddings? A:  Have the very best possible, tastefully done.   Use pforessional singers and instrumental players and use quality music from the great heritage of the church.  If the organist can't play it, find one who can. Q:  Do you use popular music? A:  Only a very few popular songs make the grade.   They probably number about a half dozen.  Some churches allow it.   Those that do probably don't have professional musicians or a high level music program.   That is just the way it is. My thinking is that the wedding service is a worship service and in some churches considered a sacrement.  The great hymns and classic music for organ, voice and instruments seem to be appropriate for the importance attached to the wedding service. Save the pop music for the reception where it belongs. Again this gets into making judgments and discriminating between things that have lasting value and things that are transient in nature. Q:  But if someone wants a favorite song that was their song when they were dating, isn't that ok? A:  Sure its ok.  But probably not in the church service.    Like I said there are a few that are used.  Again, if there are no boundries and standards then what does it all mean at that point.  Why not just do anything? This brings up a point.   Sometimes people push on this and my response is to suggest that they use a civic venue rather than a church. If you want a taste of standards, then call an Episcopal Cathedral or a Lutheran church and see just how high the standards really are.   You will be amazed.  Yet people want quality and heritage.  There is no shortage of those who want the best music for their weddings. Q:  What is the  typical wedding music program? A:  Usually we use organ and trumpet, sometimes include tympani.  Usually a singer.   Sometimes a quartet and ocassionally a boy's choir.  I really varies with the brides interests and budget.   Of course bell peals and carillon music. Sometimes we have a full 40 miniute prenuptial concert and other times just prelude music 15 or 20 minutes before the service.   It varies. Q:  What is your favorite kind of organ? A:  Pipe of course or digital pipe combination, played from a three or four manual console.  In my case I'm lucky,  St. Matthew supports music to a high degree.  Our current Schantz organ is quite capable but suffers from lack of tonal resources adequate for concert purposes.  Our new instrument is a 4 manual, 100 rank pipe/digital combination organ.  We will have an antiphonal State Trumpet above the altar and Ethereal Strings division in the high point of the roof.   The main organ will speak from the organ loft.  We will be able to perform virtually all  the works for organ in   their glory as concieved by the composer. Weddings will be absolutely grand and touch on the ambiance of the cathedral.